Isn't it about time a squirrel scripting support board was added to the VC:MP forums? I know another topic was made a while back debating which language was better, PAWN or Sql, but it seems it just turned into a debate about which one was faster.
In my opinion, the speed is relatively unimportant when it is just a few ms difference.
As it is Squirrel allows things that pawn does not. E.G. Pickups have increased functionality. It has different (if not more) functionality overall.
Also, two of the official VC:MP servers use it. (Miami Dade)
I'm not saying the Squirrel board should replace the Pawn board, but it should be along side it.
The strongest past argument against this idea, that came from Boss if I remember correctly, was that even though Pawn has less functionality at the moment, in future versions it will far surpass SQL's. Well as most of the devs are too busy to make a new version at the moment, why not allow users to make the most of the current one. Then when the new one comes, if Pawn does shit all over SQL, people will switch over.
Fully agree
Developers do not support Squirrel version of the server and there is not point in have having squirrel section for it.
Squirrel server and Scripts can be found on their own unofficial forum and i do agree squirrel has more functuions compared to pawno lanugage.
But surely the act of making servers that use squirrel 'official' servers is supporting it?
well, samp supports pawn, there are over 100,000 members that would disagree with the minority that support squirrel.
nether the less, why not just incorporate squirrel into the vcmp server?
or even better, why not work together...
but according to this post (http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,13159.0.html) the squirrel supporters dont really care about vcmp, and have a pessimistic view towards its development.
Quote from: ricardo on July 06, 2010, 02:32:45 PM
well, samp supports pawn, there are over 100,000 members that would disagree with the minority that support squirrel.
Perhaps that's because Pawn has been further developed in samp. The vcmp server that I co-own was impossible to make in pawn because of its limitations. We had to use squirrel instead.
/me waits for Boss to come attack this thread, as he used to do with mine.
Anyways, thumbs up.
Squirrel is not officially supported. End of story. Isn't it obvious though that we cannot support something we don't control? Besides, each version update will make Squirrel servers not work for some time. Do you also expect Rockstar to have an official VC:MP subforum somewhere?
I've never said we will not officially add Squirrel, just it's not priority number one at the moment. We already have a scripting language, if you find that you cannot do something with Pawn, it is A LOT easier to just add the feature into Pawn than to add a new scripting language.
Quote from: Forze on July 06, 2010, 06:08:08 PM
/me waits for Boss to come attack this thread, as he used to do with mine.
/me looks for Boss, but where is he?
Quote from: maxorator on July 06, 2010, 07:33:37 PM
Isn't it obvious though that we cannot support something we don't control? Besides, each version update will make Squirrel servers not work for some time.
1. I like SQ, but max said one good reason, why don't add it. However, why don't put any information like "there is something like bla bla, but no bla bla and use at own risk bla bla"?
2. And when should be the next "version update" ^?
yeah, whether or not it is "officially supported" or whatever, I don't see how a forums section for squirrel placed here at a central communication point for the VCMP community can hurt anything... there's quite a few squirrel guys around, and this is really the only forums I see any of them alongside eachother.
Quote from: [AoD]NC on July 06, 2010, 07:42:31 PM
2. And when should be the next "version update" ^?
I'll be travelling a lot in the next weeks, once I get back I will try to update network library to get the memory leak fixed and then see if there are any other critical bugs.
Quote from: ULK.HeAD on July 06, 2010, 07:47:43 PM
yeah, whether or not it is "officially supported" or whatever, I don't see how a forums section for squirrel placed here at a central communication point for the VCMP community can hurt anything... there's quite a few squirrel guys around, and this is really the only forums I see any of them alongside eachother.
No.
well, i would disagree that theres quite a few squirrel supporters, most have been indoctrinated by the squirrel server developers, and if you were developing a server, how would you attempt to recruit people?
a thread here would increase the risk of others being indoctrinated.
You should note that this opinion is coming from someone who is in fact indifferent about the whole thing as my server is one of few pawn based servers (and is running a good pawn script at that without trying to sound ego)
being a pawn server owner (not the scripter), I know it is possible to achieve great things with pawn even if the functionality is surpassed by squirrel slightly (the reason I use pawn is because of having a scripter who is very good at pawn at the ready), so I think arguments between sql and pawn are pointless seeing as it shouldn't be a contest on which is better as much as which is preferred by the scripter.
on the other hand, holding something against squirrel is stupid seeing as there is nothing directly wrong with it for developers to be complaining...
I agree that pawn has more potential than squirrel being why I like it more, but currently this potential is going to waste by the slow development of the busy dev squad.
I also agree that it makes more sense for people to learn pawn if it will definitely overtake squirrel soon, but there is no need to shun squirrel when it comes to this seeing as they are both "respectable" languages and the devs are busy as said already...
if the development was faster for pawn then maybe I would agree that there shouldn't be a squirrel forum, but if the case is that the language isn't considered to be as efficient as pawn then there should be no mirc forum either (or it should be at least archived in order to stop people thinking irc should be considered as a choice when starting script
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
if the development was faster for pawn then maybe I would agree that there shouldn't be a squirrel forum, but if the case is that the language isn't considered to be as efficient as pawn then there should be no mirc forum either (or it should be at least archived in order to stop people thinking irc should be considered as a choice when starting script
R2 version still suports mIRC scripting and there is no way it will be archived and you can still use pawno/mIRC for IRC function
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
on the other hand, holding something against squirrel is stupid seeing as there is nothing directly wrong with it for developers to be complaining...
VC-MP doesn't support squirrel so why do we need separate section for unofficial scripting language ?
Developers of Squirrel server are really busy with their own mods and they can't be focused with VC-MP development though they have helped our community in many ways.
Quote from: StriKe on July 06, 2010, 09:33:25 PM
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
if the development was faster for pawn then maybe I would agree that there shouldn't be a squirrel forum, but if the case is that the language isn't considered to be as efficient as pawn then there should be no mirc forum either (or it should be at least archived in order to stop people thinking irc should be considered as a choice when starting script
R2 version still suports mIRC scripting and there is no way it will be archived and you can still use pawno/mIRC for IRC function
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
on the other hand, holding something against squirrel is stupid seeing as there is nothing directly wrong with it for developers to be complaining...
VC-MP doesn't support squirrel so why do we need separate section for unofficial scripting language ?
Developers of Squirrel server are really busy with their own mods and they can't be focused with VC-MP development though they have helped our community in many ways.
but why isn't it supported?
Squirrel can be implemented into vcmp but devs give high priority to other development in mod.
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
on the other hand, holding something against squirrel is stupid seeing as there is nothing directly wrong with it for developers to be complaining...
I have never said there's something wrong with Squirrel. I just said adding a second scripting language is not a priority right now.
I've read through this thread and I've started wondering why this was even brought up.
The squirrel server is a third party server which does not share sources with the community or the dev team and therefore having the squirrel server associated in any way with the official site does not make sense.
Support for the squirrel server is and has always been available from http://www.vicecitymultiplayer.info/
Also, quite a few of you seem to be missing the actual facts that squirrel has proven to be better to work with and are thinking squirrel users are somehow "indoctrinated".
Would really like to know how you'd go about doing that.
If the third party server supporters seem in any way to be "fanboy"s or "indoctrinated" it is most probably because the third party server has worked like an oasis in the stagnant lands of vcmp development.
PS. The Miami-Dade servers were made official long before the third party server was created.
Quote from: maxorator on July 06, 2010, 10:58:33 PM
Quote from: Zegro on July 06, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
on the other hand, holding something against squirrel is stupid seeing as there is nothing directly wrong with it for developers to be complaining...
I have never said there's something wrong with Squirrel. I just said adding a second scripting language is not a priority right now.
adding a forum is no big deal
It is.
It would mean that the dev team will officially accept the squirrel server as being part of the mod itself.
As things are going at the moment, both are compatible but do not affiliate with each other in any way at all.
(http://blog.silive.com/entertainment_impact_recreation/2008/12/large_12-11boat.jpg)
Perhaps a link or something to the unofficial forums could suffice? ???
Quote from: Squida on July 07, 2010, 06:20:38 AM
Perhaps a link or something to the unofficial forums could suffice? ???
Will you like to have link to MTA in SA-MP forum ?
Quote from: Windlord on July 06, 2010, 11:33:07 PM
If the third party server supporters seem in any way to be "fanboy"s or "indoctrinated" it is most probably because the third party server has worked like an oasis in the stagnant lands of vcmp development.
Very poetic :p
Well what about a board saying 'Unofficial scripting support,' then have squirrel in there. Surely you guys want people to be able to utilise your mod to its full extent, so surely holding back an alternative way of doing this is counter-productive.
I'm not suggesting for a second that the VC:MP devs should work on integrating Squirrel into the official server, or putting any work into it at all. I'm just saying that an 'unofficial alternative' would be and has been helpful to those who can't do what they want to do with Pawn.
Whether it's a priority or not, it would be a 2 minute job tops just to create the new Unofficial category and then add the Squirrel board. 2 minutes that could seriously benefit VC:MP. There are quite a few people with extensive knowledge of Squirrel scripting now, it seems an ignorant waste to not allow them to share their knowledge.
Charley
Devs had worked really hard to create it and would they want their users to use third party servers instead of orginal one and have third party server section in their own forum ?
If the users really want to have support for those squirrel servers, they have their own forum(link which windlord posted).
It's players choice Whether to follow Orginal vcmp server or squirrel server.
As maxo stated that each version update will make Squirrel servers not work for some time.So users shouldn't bug the devs to add support for it in this forum.
of course you would deny being indoctrinated, its a symptom.
you, like i joined vcmp because you liked it. if you no longer support it and have negative views about it, why not mount your horse and quietly ride into the distance.
i support vcmp, this is the vcmp forum which supports mirc/pawn scripts. not squirrel.
besides, the developer has already told you that Squirrel servers will not work for some time with each server update.
First of all, max said why not. No means no and don't start again mirc vs pawn vs squirrel because Boss will come here!
Second. Squirrel won't work with VCMP updates, but how often is it updated? The last update was now more then a half year ago, so don't worry about this :p.
Third. We should end this topic because all posts bellow will be pointless > : D.
Fourth. If someone would in the future post on this forum an information about Squirrel (for example a nub says that pawn is difficult and someone other answers "then try sq") he shouldn't be discriminated like a ***** :).
Basta!
Quote from: [AoD]NC on July 07, 2010, 04:10:48 PM
First of all, max said why not. No means no and don't start again mirc vs pawn vs squirrel because Boss will come here!
Second. Squirrel won't work with VCMP updates, but how often is it updated? The last update was now more then a half year ago, so don't worry about this :p.
Third. We should end this topic because all posts bellow will be pointless > : D.
Fourth. If someone would in the future post on this forum an information about Squirrel (for example a nub says that pawn is difficult and someone other answers "then try sq") he shouldn't be discriminated like a ***** :).
Basta!
1.As max said they won't be any squirrel implementation into vcmp but maybe added in future version and any topic based on mirc vs pawn vs squirrel will be locked.
2.You can't be excepting update every week or month ? When have you got new releases with others mods so frequent ? Stop asking the devs WHEN WILL 0.4 WILL BE RELEASED ?! It will be released when its done.
3.It should have been ended when maxo replied "NO"
4.If he finds squirrel easy, let him carry on scripting with squirrel and shouldn't complain when later vcmp version doesn't work with squirrel servers.
About 2. What I wanted to say is that it's rarely updated and even if in the future SQ can be incompatible with VCMP, squirrel scripters shouldn't be worry, because it won't be updated like you said every week or month.
But btw. if you want to know my opinion, I like more a release every month with even a few changes, then once a year with a big changelog :].
lol... you might like rainbows rimming a unicorn, but that's just not very realistic.
I'd imagine VCMP would fall to bugs if releases were monthly, considering maxorator just pretty much picked VCMP up from dead forums/MSL, old client link etc.. you're asking for alot after he's already delivered this month's (and the last few months') update
Quote from: Charleyutton on July 07, 2010, 12:58:20 PM
Well what about a board saying 'Unofficial scripting support,' then have squirrel in there. Surely you guys want people to be able to utilise your mod to its full extent, so surely holding back an alternative way of doing this is counter-productive.
I'm not suggesting for a second that the VC:MP devs should work on integrating Squirrel into the official server, or putting any work into it at all. I'm just saying that an 'unofficial alternative' would be and has been helpful to those who can't do what they want to do with Pawn.
Whether it's a priority or not, it would be a 2 minute job tops just to create the new Unofficial category and then add the Squirrel board. 2 minutes that could seriously benefit VC:MP. There are quite a few people with extensive knowledge of Squirrel scripting now, it seems an ignorant waste to not allow them to share their knowledge.
Quote from: maxorator on July 06, 2010, 07:54:43 PM
No.
crystal clear statement, but since we're all still here buggin' let me throw my hat into the "can we get some sorta easy-to-see link to the unofficial squirrel forums here at the VCMP forums if there isn't already?" pool.
Quote from: ULK.HeAD on July 09, 2010, 12:15:19 AM
crystal clear statement, but since we're all still here buggin' let me throw my hat into the "can we get some sorta easy-to-see link to the unofficial squirrel forums here at the VCMP forums if there isn't already?" pool.
yeah surely that's a fair compromise. Although I guess official sponsoring unofficial is a tad strange.
Quote from: ULK.HeAD on July 09, 2010, 12:15:19 AM
"can we get some sorta easy-to-see link to the unofficial squirrel forums here at the VCMP forums if there isn't already?" pool.
Can we swim in this pool? :D
Quote from: Windlord on July 09, 2010, 10:43:55 PM
Can we swim in this pool? :D
(http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/07/16/pool.jpg)
*Charleyutton Locks topic