Squirrel

[Windlord]

A game modification is created to increase the playability of the original game.
The end result must be user-friendly and most certainly scripters should not be made to spend time trying to write overly complicated scripts.

Squirrel uses pointers and objects making scripts immensely simple and intuitive.
It is also extremely easy for diligent developers to add in features such as sockets, sqlite, inis, and hash tables without the community having to go through the procedure of creating a less efficient plug-in for them.
Pawn however requires add-ons, numerous functions and a lot of crunching to deliver the same experience.
(btw, did you know that Pawn was never meant for games?  )

The heal command supplies every evidence you need to prove that Squirrel is more efficient and is more newb friendly.
What you need to know is that Squirrel doesn't need any "includes" for its simple commands. Pointers and objects are integrated into the language itself.
Force's script shows the amount of code you require to run a server with a single !heal command in it.
Squirrel does not need anything more than a few lines.
Pawn needs all of the hassle of creating inefficient commands.
(Yes, they are inefficient since a pointer points directly at a player's data and does not loop through dozens of other players)

Back to the first point I made about intuitive and easy languages...
If you were looking for a mod for GTA:MP to script for,
and each mod had the same condition except for the fact that they used different languages,
which language would you choose?

For me, it would definitely be Squirrel as I'd waste less time trying to make things work and create thing which actually do work without too much effort.

Boss:

Don't even think of replying to my post, your replies are useless and extremely kiss-arse-y
If you don't see how Squirrel is better, it's your problem as you don't even give a damn and won't even try it out!

SilenusShar:

If you want evidence visit the unofficial forums and take a look at a Squirrel script. Then go to a samp forum and take a look at a pawn script.

The main reason no one bothers uploading benchmarks is because it's pointless.
Most of us can see that Squirrel is a faster and easier language for vcmp

[Boss]

Don't even think of replying to my post

Try to stop me.

your replies are useless

Yeah, sorry for not posting "+1 Forze", "SQ rules though I don't know what it is" and "look, I can't script in pawn!". I guess I just don't have a rich enough scripting experience.

extremely kiss-arse-y

Excuse me?

If you don't see how Squirrel is better, it's your problem as you don't even give a damn and won't even try it out!

Good sir, it is my firm belief that you experience a certain difficulty reading/understanding my posts. I have already mentioned:
1. Few advantages of SQ over Pawn.
2. My interest in SQ as a consequence of 1.
3. A possibility of a future SQ implementation.
All of these contradict with your statement, quoted above. Please re-read my previous posts to avoid further misunderstandings.

scripters should not be made to spend time trying to write overly complicated scripts.

Out of all the things mentioned in this topic, Pawn's complexity was never proven.

Squirrel uses pointers and objects making scripts immensely simple and intuitive.

This has already been mentioned (even by me), thanks.

It is also extremely easy for diligent developers

*cough*

Pawn however requires add-ons, numerous functions and a lot of crunching to deliver the same experience.

SQ requires all the same, only it is done by devs and is largery hard-coded.

(btw, did you know that Pawn was never meant for games?  )

Same for lua, so?

The heal command supplies every evidence you need to prove that Squirrel is more efficient and is more newb friendly.

It doesn't, read the 1st page of this topic more carefully.

What you need to know is that Squirrel doesn't need any "includes" for its simple commands.

"Its" simple commands? Does every SQ come with FindPlayer()?

Pointers and objects are integrated into the language itself.

Thanks for reminding again.

Force's script shows the amount of code you require to run a server with a single !heal command in it.

Do you know many scripts running a single !heal command in them?

Squirrel does not need anything more than a few lines.

Do you know any playable script taking a few lines?

Pawn needs all of the hassle of creating inefficient commands.

Which devs, instead of hard-coding into server, can just place into one include for scripters to be able to modify them. Your point fails.

(Yes, they are inefficient since a pointer points directly at a player's data and does not loop through dozens of other players)

Which Pawn's "inefficient command" exactly loops through dozens of other players?

each mod had the same condition

Not true.

which language would you choose?

The one you have more experience in. And many players come after sa-mp.

For me, it would definitely be Squirrel as I'd waste less time trying to make things work and create thing which actually do work without too much effort.

Pawn never required too much effort and the fact you're stating haven't been proven for the past 5 pages. If you have a way to prove it which is better than a failed heal example - please post.

The main reason no one bothers uploading benchmarks is because it's pointless.
Most of us can see that Squirrel is a faster and easier language for vcmp

And I thought obvious things are easy to prove.

[Squida]

If you guys are ready to admit that squirrel has its pros and cons just like pawn then is it such a big deal in having others use it, even if you prefer not to?


The big picture is that this is just a game and going to such lengths for the sake of an arguement is just downright 'stoopid'.

[ULK.akiharu]

Point of Inquiry:

Boss, are you part of the VC:MP dev team?

[gta5]

yea I don't really see why he says things like mirc scripting will be discontinued shortly without providing any proof/evidence.

[Ettans]

A game modification is created to increase the playability of the original game....

Finally someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Unlike certain people here, who post "+1 son" or go all fan-boy, without taking something into consideration. So, yes. Squirrel IS faster AND more effective. The reason this thread has turned into a flaming hole, is due to the reason that some people are used to PAWN and some to Squirrel, so they don't want to switch, but look at the bigger picture, Squirrel would be better for VC:MP.

[Boss]

If you guys are ready to admit that squirrel has its pros and cons just like pawn then is it such a big deal in having others use it, even if you prefer not to?

I suppose it is assumed that only one can be used.

The big picture is that this is just a game and going to such lengths for the sake of an arguement is just downright 'stoopid'.

Arguing is fun. ^^

Boss, are you part of the VC:MP dev team?

Nope. Did I say anything out of my field of competence?

yea I don't really see why he says things like mirc scripting will be discontinued shortly without providing any proof/evidence.

*long sigh*

Well up to now vcmp has only had irc scripting released so all server's currently run std server with irc scripts. So trying to give them time to convert there modes in pawn.

some people are used to PAWN

Any that I know?

and some to Squirrel

Basically they're the ones behind starting/continuing this topic. I see no valid reason for them not to use Pawn or a hacked server till (and if) SQ is officially supported.

Squirrel would be better for VC:MP.

Not much.

[SilenusShar]

SilenusShar:

If you want evidence visit the unofficial forums and take a look at a Squirrel script. Then go to a samp forum and take a look at a pawn script.

The main reason no one bothers uploading benchmarks is because it's pointless.
Most of us can see that Squirrel is a faster and easier language for vcmp

Im not going to spend time digging about to prove your point for you.

i would laugh you out of the door if you proposed it to me in the manor you just have.

Your trying to convince the developers to implement it, not me. if they want to implement it "just on your word that its better" that would be up to them (rather foolish).


Edit:
This is an appalling attempt to ask for something to become implemented.

anyway.... good luck, i think your gonna need it.

[maxorator]

We haven't said we'll never add Squirrel. Some people prefer Pawn, some prefer Squirrel. The fact is, Pawn came first. It was decided long ago to add it to VC:MP. And we won't remove it. We can't start working on adding another scripting language when we're not done with this one yet.

[Windlord]

@maxorator;
Thank you for your input. It is always nice to have input from a developer.
If you don't mind, I'd like to see how far this thread goes.

@SilenusShar;
I am not trying to ask for a squirrel implementation. I am aware that it is not possible at this stage.
Forze was and he did a good job but it seems like his explanations were not clear enough for you people.

@Ettans;
You certainly have understood the point of my post. Thank you. Nice wiki btw

@ULK.akiharu;
You seem to be speaking for the majority
It seems like sir Boss has a false sense of superiority in many aspects

now... :drumrolls:

@Boss;
We would all be glad if you did not fill up our screens with your annoying line-to-line approach
While it may be convenient for you not to create a logical structure for your own arguments, the excessive spam is not very friendly to us.
Your last reply did not involve much actual feedback to my post but instead went nitpicking around.

Just for your information;

• Lua was designed to be used in games and is used in many many areas.
• Pawn was designed as an integrated language for small devices such as mp3 players. Only SA:MP and AMX Mod X use it on games.
• Squirrel was influenced by lua and has been created for more complex tasks in general, including games.

Lua and Squirrel are both dynamic in nature and are capable of many more things compared to Pawn. This statement does not even need to be proven.
However, disregarding all of the above, all three languages are based on C or a subset of C and are lightweight making them more or less similar in their speed. (If you say 20ms is small)

Now, if you have carefully read my post above, you would have noticed that I have not said anything about the speed of the language itself.
I have merely commented on how fast using Squirrel in vcmp would be compared to using Pawn.

This is down to the way you can write scripts in its respective languages.
I myself do not know much about squirrel but I am aware how easier it is to write scripts in squirrel and how less steps are needed for the same output. (compared to pawn)

In the end, less crunching and more scripting lets you create better scripts and allows you to enjoy the process better as well. It also allows your script to be quicker at doing things as it does not have hurdles to jump pass every time.

PS. Here's a link for you.
Be careful when you're up against one of the grammar nazis of VC:MP 

[Knucis]

..
PS. Here's a link for you.
Be careful when you're up against one of the grammar nazis of VC:MP  

Hahaha, just laughing so hard rofl.

But yeah, as the topic says. SQ would be pretty good for VC:MP, Imo, Pawn isn't that hard, but has his cons, as all the script languages has. Squirrel is easy to learn, while Pawn took me alot of time to understand those new, forwards, etc. But they are both good scriptin' languages, it doesn't mean that one of them has to go down!
Here's a small suggestion, if VC:MP devs are working on Pawn atm, then let them working on it. About Squirrel, since VRocker and Juppi started it, why dont they finish it? Adding VC:MP 0.z r2 support?

Well, This is just my oppinion, dont take it personally (although I am not offending anyone here, (I guess)). We all have our opinions, respect our opinions lol!

(*Lols*)

[SilenusShar]

We haven't said we'll never add Squirrel. Some people prefer Pawn, some prefer Squirrel. The fact is, Pawn came first. It was decided long ago to add it to VC:MP. And we won't remove it. We can't start working on adding another scripting language when we're not done with this one yet.

That is a positive response windlord, be content with it.


Edit:
stop proclaiming to be some grammatical professor, we were only asking for evidence (as would anyone you approach with a proposition of this nature)

Edit2:
My glass is half full, how’s it looking for you?

[Boss]

You seem to be speaking for the majority
It seems like sir Boss has a false sense of superiority in many aspects

Two people do not form a majority, sorry.

We would all be glad if you did not fill up our screens with your annoying line-to-line approach

Quoting is used by eveyone in this thread. If you don't like it - you are more than welcome to leave.

(If you say 20ms is small)

May I please know how a scripting language affects application's text output speed? Thanks.

I have merely commented on how fast using Squirrel in vcmp would be compared to using Pawn.

Depends on the scripter entirely.

I myself do not know much about squirrel

*facepalm*

It also allows your script to be quicker at doing things as it does not have hurdles to jump pass every time.

I suppose you never scripted in Pawn either.

PS. Here's a link for you.

What exactly was that about? If it's about my highlighted "its", then I just wanted to underline that you pretend some functions like findPlayer are native to SQ, while they are not. These functions have nothing to do with Squirrel and are coded entirely by server developers. The same function can be added in VC-MP's Pawn server too if you hate includes so much.

Be careful when you're up against one of the grammar nazis of VC:MP  

I'm not a native speaker, so I've got a nazi immunity here. ^^

But yeah, as the topic says. SQ would be pretty good for VC:MP, Imo, Pawn isn't that hard, but has his cons, as all the script languages has. Squirrel is easy to learn, while Pawn took me alot of time to understand those new, forwards, etc. But they are both good scriptin' languages, it doesn't mean that one of them has to go down!

As max has already stated, if it comes to implementing SQ it will be avaliable along with Pawn (like Pawn and mrc before).

About Squirrel, since VRocker and Juppi started it, why dont they finish it? Adding VC:MP 0.z r2 support?

VRocker and Juppi are working on their own MP with Squirrel support.

[Sudokono]

http://codeplea.com/game-scripting-languages

[Force]

http://codeplea.com/game-scripting-languages

Hopefully this will answer some question/queries. However I do feel it is worth pointing out that the Squirrel example in there is using an older version (v2) where as the newer version (v3) which is implemented into the ("Hacked") Squirrel server is much quicker.

That's as far as I'm going to go in this topic, I can see it turned into a huge flame war, I think the main point of this topic was to ask about Squirrel being implemented not which language is better.

I won't be posting any more replies.

@Knucis: Maybe you should check the unofficial VC-MP forums.