UMS has cheaters, and we need support from devs/mods to make baka respond.

[ULK.HeAD]

alright boss, thanks for the help in the last locked thread. I understand it went offtopic from others initially misunderstanding my first 2 paragraphs, and that doesn't make it right for me to continue the trend, yet hold others accountable entirely. point taken. accept my apologies. but before I get to the point of this new thread, if anyone responds here with any of that off-topic stuff, please stop, and please keep your personal insults or whatever out of here, this thread has a purpose slightly beyond that engrish guy's thread that got a verbal answer and nothing else, and needs to serve its purpose without being locked from bullshit.

ANYWAY... I've PM'ed baka on several occasions, no luck. same for all others I've spoken to... the reason I made this entire thread, is it seems nobody is able to contact him or get in touch but you guys, who I have previously called the "management team" or someshit.

I am making this thread as a petition of sorts, for people to agree on the following points:

UMS has rampant cheating. they are almost completely un-restricted.

UMS draws players from other servers by offering them a way to "pwn" with less resistance: cheating without admins to ban them. this hurts other servers.

UMS spreads cheats among its players, they are cooperatively developing cheats for the r2 release, and they go un-checked. this inherently results in more cheaters spreading out to other servers. this hurts the integrity of the game.

UMS needs active admins. consistent admin presence would check these cheaters, and put a stop to the continued development and testing of cheats at UMS.

with administrators acting legitimately and consistently, less players will find themselves able to get cheats, use cheats, and they will find less reason to use them. players must learn skill rather than how to kiss ass for a MSN file transfer.

if you agree with some or any of those points, or you can at least agree that cheating is bad for VCMP, and you also have trouble contacting bakasan, and you also would like to see active admins at UMS, please post here saying so.

when the list of people who agree becomes too long, we will all gather and go to bakasan's place with pitchforks and torches.  

LOL I'm trying not to flame or insult, but if you don't agree, and you think cheaters should be allowed to "breed" all over UMS and then filter out to other servers, and flood their respective support forums with cheater reports in their name when they should have been snuffed out at UMS... or that they should be allowed to inject their crazy third-world survive at all costs cheater mentality into VCMP while the 1v1 rotation suffocates under its weight, you should die in a fire while being punched in the face over and over by a flaming fist the size of your entire head. lol.

[Boss]

I am sure UMS is not the only place for spreading cheats. Even then, the other servers have more admins to handle cheaters if they decide to spread.

And your "petition" is unlikely to make bakasan respond, since he is currently simply away:

Last Active:  03 February 2010, 04:32:16

[Baldachyn]

Off-topic content removed by maxorator: Let's not make this personal and could we please stay on topic.

[ULK.HeAD]

rofl... again with the off-topic nonsense.

can I respond this time?

again, I haven't been working on XE at all since November. again, you can fault me for this and you are right. and again, your statement does not change the FACT that when I was actively managing XE with my team, XE had the HIGHEST AVERAGE PLAYERCOUNT FOR NEARLY 2 YEARS.

why doesn't the next guy just come in and say "ULK flooded UMS with cheaters, so they could have them all kicked and XE will be popular again!!"

as much as I'd like to go OT and refute your points, I've already stated, please keep the off-topic stuff out of the discussion.

unless you are here to agree with or dispute one of the first posts' statements, don't post please. keep your feelings of inadequacy or whatever your personal feelings towards myself and ULK or XE may be to yourself, and stop trying to get my topics locked. lol.

[Baldachyn]

Off-topic content removed by maxorator: Let's not make this personal and could we please stay on topic.

[ULK.akiharu]

Off-topic content removed by maxorator: Let's not make this personal and could we please stay on topic.

Now on topic:

Code Select Expand

UMS has rampant cheating. they are almost completely un-restricted.

Code Select Expand

UMS draws players from other servers by offering them a way to "pwn" with less resistance: cheating without admins to ban them. this hurts other servers.

Code Select Expand

UMS spreads cheats among its players, they are cooperatively developing cheats for the r2 release, and they go un-checked. this inherently results in more cheaters spreading out to other servers. this hurts the integrity of the game.

Code Select Expand

UMS needs active admins. consistent admin presence would check these cheaters, and put a stop to the continued development and testing of cheats at UMS.

Code Select Expand

with administrators acting legitimately and consistently, less players will find themselves able to get cheats, use cheats, and they will find less reason to use them. players must learn skill rather than how to kiss ass for a MSN file transfer.

[maxorator]

Please keep off-topic and personal stuff out of this thread.

Argument 1
UMS needs more active administrators to keep away cheaters.

I actually agree that it would be good to have more active administrators on UMS. But honestly, we just don't have time to deal with UMS issues. The server is run by bakasan, who has been so busy recently that he hasn't even been online (has like a four-man workload at the moment). Even if he finds some free time, it makes more sense to spend it on developing VC:MP than administrating UMS. Me and Falcon also don't have much free time so VC:MP is our priority. It might not be that difficult to recruit new administrators who would start dealing with recruiting and stuff like that, but so far we haven't gotten around to doing so. People whining about it doesn't make it happen any sooner though, since currently we have other issues to deal with.

Argument 2
UMS is a beta server. All beta testers are UMS administrators.

First of all, I would like to clarify that UMS doesn't use beta server script, beta server used UMS script. Besides, beta testing cannot be done on an official (read: outdated) release. Therefore UMS is not related to beta testing in any way. Also, beta testers aren't instantly given any rights in UMS. But in case beta testers should apply for an administrator, they will be accepted since they have already proven themselves. Applying to be an administrator in UMS doesn't require you to be beta tester however. Beta team in general is not responsible for what goes on in UMS.

Argument 3
Beta team is inactive. More beta testers are needed.

Currently the amount of active testers is quite acceptable (around 15). The percents don't matter since the complete list of testers is huge. Also we are always in the lookout for new testers. For example in the last few weeks we have recruited 4 new testers.

Argument 4
UMS is a serious problem of VC:MP because it has a high concentration of cheaters.

Last time I checked UMS was a server, not a multiplayer mod. The problems of VC:MP are bugs, lack of features and other similar things. If you don't like UMS, don't go there. Of course we should improve UMS, but like I told you, we haven't had time for that yet. We expect to have new servers due to more stable gameplay and a huge leap in the amount of features.

Argument 5
UMS steals other servers' players because they like to cheat in UMS instead of playing fair in other servers.

Didn't you have the principle that you don't unban cheaters? So basically if the players who play at your servers would cheat if they know the probability of getting banned is low, they are "less cheaters" than those who cheat even if they know they will most likely get banned? So you are saying UMS is stealing cheaters from other servers. To me it seems everyone else wins from this except for UMS itself.

Argument 6
UMS has too much "freedom" as in hunters, rocket launchers and so on. No proper stubby fights.

We are not here to argue about tastes. You obviously don't like this type of "freedom", but some people consider it fun and relaxing instead of having to take the game too seriously. That "1vs1 stubby fight" style is just one of hundreds of styles.

Argument 7
Beta team tests in UMS along with cheaters.

False. Beta team tests in a beta server using the latest beta release.

Argument 8
Developers should search for bugs by waiting for bug reports by UMS players instead of having a beta team.

This is simply absurd. Most of the bugs that are present in R2 are already fixed in current beta releases and the beta team is testing whole new features for bugs on a beta version, where most of the known bugs have been fixed, so we won't have to wonder whether that bug has been reported yet or not, since most of them are fixed and don't occur anymore. Besides, a beta team knows how to test properly, listens to what developers ask them to test and offer much better feedback than normal players would. I've tried asking normal players to test something in UMS. The usual response is a rocket in the face.

Argument 9
Beta testers are not good at my favourite game style (stubby fighting).

What does it have to do with beta testing? VC:MP is not a clan, it's software.

Argument 10
UMS is a testing and breeding ground for cheaters.

This is simply an exaggeration. There wouldn't be less cheaters in other servers if UMS had more active administrators. Probably it would be the opposite since then the cheaters would have to play more on other servers.


VC:MP != UMS. Stop addressing the management of UMS as VC:MP developers and beta testers. And please do not talk about how beta testing should work if you don't know anything about the technical side.

[ULK.HeAD]

Argument 1
UMS needs more active administrators to keep away cheaters.

I actually agree that it would be good to have more active administrators on UMS. But honestly, we just don't have time to deal with UMS issues. The server is run by bakasan, who has been so busy recently that he hasn't even been online (has like a four-man workload at the moment). Even if he finds some free time, it makes more sense to spend it on developing VC:MP than administrating UMS. Me and Falcon also don't have much free time so VC:MP is our priority. It might not be that difficult to recruit new administrators who would start dealing with recruiting and stuff like that, but so far we haven't gotten around to doing so. People whining about it doesn't make it happen any sooner though, since currently we have other issues to deal with.

I understand that, everyone's busy, and everyone has priorities. I also understand that the problem will not be solved unless someone takes the first step. You may think it is "whining" but in my view, my words are the first pro-active move towards a reality where SOMEONE does have the time to deal with this server. The more I write and more time I spend showing that someone has time to spend, the more it deflates the issue that someone else does not have the time. I won't say who is in the best position to administrate the UMS server, but I will say there are people willing to and far capable of doing so.

Argument 4
UMS is a serious problem of VC:MP because it has a high concentration of cheaters.

Last time I checked UMS was a server, not a multiplayer mod. The problems of VC:MP are bugs, lack of features and other similar things. If you don't like UMS, don't go there. Of course we should improve UMS, but like I told you, we haven't had time for that yet. We expect to have new servers due to more stable gameplay and a huge leap in the amount of features.

Argument 5
UMS steals other servers' players because they like to cheat in UMS instead of playing fair in other servers.

Didn't you have the principle that you don't unban cheaters? So basically if the players who play at your servers would cheat if they know the probability of getting banned is low, they are "less cheaters" than those who cheat even if they know they will most likely get banned? So you are saying UMS is stealing cheaters from other servers. To me it seems everyone else wins from this except for UMS itself.

of course, you have the beta team working on those problems for the future as you have said, but it doesn't change what is happening right now. on face value, cheaters holing up in UMS seems ok, and only bad for UMS. the problem is just as I have said, new players would rather hit UMS and cheat because it is easier than gaining skill at another server. UMS is the new player development server, maybe 1% of newcomers to VCMP are LW regulars at best. In order to maintain a growing playerbase, UMS needs some care.

these same UMS cheaters, when they move to other servers, they get banned as you said, no big problem, except for now they return to their safe haven at UMS and its no big deal. not only are they NOT banned, but they are now playing with MORE PEOPLE, and immersed in more gameplay variety, which equates to more fun for new players.

new players enjoy variety and freedom more than constraint and honor/skill or stubby duels etc... with the opportunity to driveby or kill by other means, a new player can foresee a future for himself easier than when he gets killed 10 times in a row by LW's stubby pro's.

NOW is finally time for some talk relating to ULK. I have been a core member of ULK for years, which is a training ground for VC fanatics with no lives. I specialize in finding, training, and adapting new players from random bumbling fools who will quit after a week of getting pwned, to solid VC addicts who will stay for years, valuing the variety of gameplay VC is capable of. My speciality is determining what aspects of the game new players and trainees find the most fun, and using this to develop not only their skills, but to develop a fun and competitive atmosphere for them to play in. none of you can argue we are a failure in this regard, we know what we are doing when it comes to keeping people obsessed, and I am telling you, 6 years of this shit says without a doubt, limited gameplay makes people bored, especially new players. you can't have old players without new players. you can choose to believe me or not, but please leave this part out of your arguements, I don't wanna hear about ULK or how I have no life, its a moot point kids... this paragraph was just my opinion from my years of experience doing a job with definate tasks and a successful(40 members VCMP 80 members MTAVC and 10+ 5-6 year members) outcome.

Argument 6
UMS has too much "freedom" as in hunters, rocket launchers and so on. No proper stubby fights.

We are not here to argue about tastes. You obviously don't like this type of "freedom", but some people consider it fun and relaxing instead of having to take the game too seriously. That "1vs1 stubby fight" style is just one of hundreds of styles.

you must have misunderstood me, I love the freedom of UMS. since I came to VCMP, I have been battling the attitudes of dying and inactive clans and their members that generally says: "1v1 stubby is the only skilled fight, there is no skill in driveby, team fighting, or any weapon other than stubby and fighting one person"

their attitudes, which have no basis other than their opinion or preference, results in clans with no purpose, and servers revolving around a non-stop rotation of 1v1's to avoid fighting under any other circumstance. as I stated before, 1v1 rotations are not friendly to new players. 1v1 rotations are not likely to retain any player longer than 1 year before they get bored thinking they mastered the whole game already.

now, you may say mine is only opinion, and it may be true, but I think I'm a little more willing to try and convince people. where the stubby whores say "driveby kills instantly and involves no skill" or they say "omg team nubs" they say that without any backup or real definate reasoning that I can figure.... Now, I say "get the fuck out of the road, use cover and terrain they can't drive on, pop their tires, rocket pwn them, headshot them, climb a tree, dodge them like a bullfigher, drop a nade on them..." and for teams I say "your clan should be more than tags on their name and a forum, you gotta back it up in-game, or else stfu, stop pretending and take off the tags" and since when do people fight 1v1? next time I'll ask you if I have permission to kill you   ....which side is skill-involved? "omg nub!" side, or "I'll fuck you up and here's how"  ...and which side am I on? yeah.

anyone who thinks UMS is not balanced, you are free to come and fight me there using any "cheap" method you choose, driveby's, helikills, carkills, teams, whatever. I will be glad to prove to you just how balanced the weapons and r2 gameplay are at UMS. I guarantee, the only unbalanced methods you will find to defeat me and/or my gang, are the hunter and unchecked !heal command, outright cheating/spawnkilling, or !goto abuse. even then, I'll probably shoot you with rockets while you type !heal, and running away won't kill me...  I'll be glad to beat you in game or die trying.... bring your friends, ULK will be glad to have a little team-play that isn't "for fun" for once. I play UMS every day, I deal with driveby's, teams, carkills, glitchers laggers and hunters every day no problem, you'll just be another kill scratched on my record. I'll be waiting for your challenges

I am arguing FOR UMS and FOR its freedom of gameplay, I am just saying it needs administrators to stop the cheaters from unbalancing the gameplay. without cheaters there, and with minor command fixes, UMS r2 would be the best in my opinion of VCMP gameplay balance and freedom, the server with the most weapons freely available, with players free to use them in any way they see fit, without any weapon or tactic being "unstoppable" or favored too heavily. VC balance is like a game of rock-paper-scissors with each weapon or tactic countering another. in 3z, driveby's had no counter or balance, so people got used to a reality where driveby's were not balanced and needed script to balance it. weak clans centered on 1v1's, team play has no reasonable balance or counter. since the r2 release, these balance issues have been fixed, driveby's can be headshot or rocket pwned, and teams can be rocket pwned as well. clans/gangs should defend their own from unfair team kills, not just wear tags and 1v1.
my final goal is a community where players can accept the inevitability that shit besides stubby 1v1's happen, and they need to learn to defend themselves and enjoy doing it, rather than cry or say things like "UMS sucks" or "stubby only, nub" ...I would like to see people using rockets or m4 headshots to stop driveby's, not crying. I want to see VCMP clans powerful and strong, defending their members from un-fair or dishonorable team attacks.

don't get me wrong, I'm not talking shit or anything, you've done an awesome job with the mod and we all appreciate what you guys do. you are VERY close to achieving the best online GTA combat experience to ever be done.
I'm a huge VC combat addict, when I can see my perfect fix is so close in sight, as well as the opportunity to stop doing insane amounts of work for XE under the old "you want something done, do it yourself" mantra so I can concentrate on playing the game again... I get a little animated to say the least... if UMS were to follow through on the changes I am asking about, there wouldn't be a need for XE any longer IMO, and I also believe we would have less new players becoming cheaters instead of relying on 1v1 stubby or clan membership to make the game more tolerable.
clean up UMS, and everyone wins. LW's will take all the guys who would 1v1 to survive when they can't cheat and its playercount will go back up to 20 or so, and we get to once again see the "anything goes" server take the highest playercount like I know it will, like I proved with XE and the admin team there...

it seems you have misunderstood some other points I have made, but I don't care as they are all related to the beta team, and I understand your position that there are more pressing issues than to adminstrate UMS.
though since you agree that it does need admins, but that the time will probably never be made, can I ask that IF bakasan mentions adminstration or giving it out to some active community members, that you PLEASE make it known to him that you believe it's a good idea, and realize there are people willing, they just need to get in touch with the powers-that-be...? I don't see much point to us debating this or that, you already answered the main points, so again, if you speak to baka, please add your voice to his mind among the people asking for UMS admins... and I'll love you forever more than I already do, it would be more like the kind of blind political love people have for their favorite president or w/e, and less like the psycho stalker following you demanding that you love me and take your clothes off inside my rusty ULK van  

edit: some bullshit removed, and PM sent to bakasan.  

[Squida]

could it be possible to give a few guys the power to kick and freeze players in ums

though i'm hesitant to have heaps of people with a banhammer lol, as no doubt when nobody's around they may abuse their powers .

[maxorator]

Alright I misunderstood the freedom of gameplay part of your posts. Sorry about that.

I understand your concern about UMS causing new players to think cheating is a normal part of the gameplay. I do not deny the problem.

And sorry about the "whining" comment. I was just pretty tired of this all after reading all the posts. Your first posts had some arguments based on misinformation, which instantly caused a flame war instead of receiving thorough responses explaining everything fully which it should have.

[ULK.HeAD]

lol give squida the banhammer 

[Squida]

i already has teh banhammer lolz :p

[ULK.HeAD]

lol... no wonder I never see you there  

expect cheat-report spam from me every time I play until we see more active admins since you're the only one I know of, or you decide to share your UMS login with me... lol

edit: sorry maxo and other mods/devs etc. for being a raving douchebag on the forums. please forgive and forget, but please don't forget that cheaters prosper, at least without active UMS administration...

[Boss]

A small report on the situation, if I may.

Cheaters still appear periodically, but usually no more than 2 at a time (compared to 5 earlier). Hp hack is still most common, but its users are banned even before they are able to make a spree. I can also confirm that few cheaters left UMS permanently.

That suits you I hope.

[Javi]

Isn't UMS's script pawn? If so you could make a super-pro anti-hack script