[Split] Is VC:MP dead?

[SugarD]

Probably because people think VC is somehow more advanced that GTA III when it barely is. Maybe because the GTA III graphics are slightly worse.

I beg to differ on that. Each one has it's own advantages. The misconception that GTA III is ugly is purely because of it's dark, NYC-style atmosphere, which was part of the game on purpose. Given that VC is using an upgraded version of the engine, and was made bright and colorful on purpose, comparing them is null and void.

I myself had a hard time finding out where to find a GTA III multiplayer and I was actually looking and searching around for it. Also I believe VCMP is older than it, much older.

VC:MP is not older than any of them, except *maybe* LU by a few years. GTA3:AM, aka GTA3:MTA, was the first GTA multiplayer mod to ever exist. You obviously don't know your history, otherwise you'd be thanking that mod for allowing any of your fancy modern ones to come to light. Without it, none of them would exist.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not there. Several people have tried to make competing GTA III multiplayer mods. GTA3:MTA and LU just happened to be the only ones that succeeded because of GTA III's lack of documentation, which was purely because that information was barely available during it's strong era. People didn't discover the true abilities of modifying GTA until the end of VC's era, and the start of SA's. Claiming that no one has made GTA III multiplayer mods because of the game engine being old is also a ridiculous argument, because it has absolutely nothing to do with game engine age. Hell, GTA3:MTA was so big when it first came out that it was even on TV. It still didn't have many players, but it made it onto national television, and into online newspapers. Even Rockstar Games gave it support because the Developers never gave up despite the obstacles they had faced.

If you want VC:MP to become popular again, you need to support it. Moaning about how "crappy" it is, and how it will "never get any players" is the exact reason why it's having trouble. How would you like to be a Developer for a mod that gets **** on daily? I am one. Trust me, it's not fun. It makes you want to give up and ignore it because you feel like no one appreciates your work...and those that do suffer as a result.

Either get your facts and attitude straight, and help out this mod, or get the hell off it's forum. We don't need people ****ting on it left and right so they can promote what they prefer instead.

[[AoD]NC]

Steam version - VC v2.0 doesn't allow to play VCMP
Mobile - no

Wow, what an unbelievable news! Let's refer to gtaf one more time. Compare the amount of posts at the VC board and GTA SA or GTA4 posted recently, the difference is huge. Now let's check the recently submitted mods on gtainside.de for example, probably the biggest site with GTA mods. Not even one VC mod was submitted in this month so far, while for SA or 4... As you see. Another fact: the xfire statistics. Sure, not everyone uses xfire, but the statistics found on http://www.xfire.com/games/gtavc and http://www.xfire.com/games/gtasa shows one more time the interest of the community into both games.

One fact, which you can't argue about, at least I hope so . WE (= players, who are playing VCMP for over a year) are the main force, power etc. of VCMP. But unfortunately WE are getting older, we have more troubles, issues and work than we had when we started playing VCMP for example. And WE will have less time for playing games (or? ). And so, the main force will be weaker, if there won't be many new players around, who want to stick with this game for a longer time. And as you clearly see from the examples I posted above, our chances to get new players are not big.

Of course there is a point of everything (what have I wrote rofl ). We just need to make VCMP more like MTASA. I heard one time a nice quote, it gone like this: "GTA SA is a game. MTASA changed a game (SA) to a (gaming) engine". I messed it, but doesn't matter. This is what VCMP needs to do. Use VC as an engine, hack the game as much as possible. Then we can create any "game" we want, based on VC. I see that we could do it. First step should be to include Maxo's VL to VCMP .

Still talking about LU? Okay, so why is LU not as popular as VCMP?
1. GTA3, really. I played GTA3 after VC & SA, which was a terrible mistake. People who started with III loved this game, while it was for me a simpler version of VC (amount of weapons, cars, no bikes, helicopters).
2. The release date. Maybe if LU would have been released by the same time when VCMP, the community size of both game had been similar.

---

There is a difference between SP and MP. I know several persons who love SP, but they don't even think of playing this game with other players. However, I don't know the reason, so we can just guess.

[SugarD]

Steam version - VC v2.0 doesn't allow to play VCMP
Mobile - no

Wow, what an unbelievable news! Let's refer to gtaf one more time. Compare the amount of posts at the VC board and GTA SA or GTA4 posted recently, the difference is huge. Now let's check the recently submitted mods on gtainside.de for example, probably the biggest site with GTA mods. Not even one VC mod was submitted in this month so far, while for SA or 4... As you see. Another fact: the xfire statistics. Sure, not everyone uses xfire, but the statistics found on http://www.xfire.com/games/gtavc and http://www.xfire.com/games/gtasa shows one more time the interest of the community into both games.

One fact, which you can't argue about, at least I hope so . WE (= players, who are playing VCMP for over a year) are the main force, power etc. of VCMP. But unfortunately WE are getting older, we have more troubles, issues and work than we had when we started playing VCMP for example. And WE will have less time for playing games (or? ). And so, the main force will be weaker, if there won't be many new players around, who want to stick with this game for a longer time. And as you clearly see from the examples I posted above, our chances to get new players are not big.

Of course there is a point of everything (what have I wrote rofl ). We just need to make VCMP more like MTASA. I heard one time a nice quote, it gone like this: "GTA SA is a game. MTASA changed a game (SA) to a (gaming) engine". I messed it, but doesn't matter. This is what VCMP needs to do. Use VC as an engine, hack the game as much as possible. Then we can create any "game" we want, based on VC. I see that we could do it. First step should be to include Maxo's VL to VCMP .

Still talking about LU? Okay, so why is LU not as popular as VCMP?
1. GTA3, really. I played GTA3 after VC & SA, which was a terrible mistake. People who started with III loved this game, while it was for me a simpler version of VC (amount of weapons, cars, no bikes, helicopters).
2. The release date. Maybe if LU would have been released by the same time when VCMP, the community size of both game had been similar.

---

There is a difference between SP and MP. I know several persons who love SP, but they don't even think of playing this game with other players. However, I don't know the reason, so we can just guess.

1. Replace the .exe and it works fine.

2. No mobile MP has been made for any GTA yet due to limitations of the OS'es.

3. I never once referenced GTAF, but go ahead.

No one has made mods in the past month because nearly everything has been thought of. Can you come up with a decent, fun mod that you know how to make that hasn't been created already? Really, go ahead and try. I dare you.

4. Not many people use XFire. It isn't compatible with MTA:SA, and it has conflicts with many other games. It has many less users than Steam does, so it's not a reliable source of information.

5. If you have less time for playing games, then you should only be complaining about your personal situation. Not everyone else is you, so if you don't like this mod, quit. Simple as that. You are a VC:MP Beta Tester. It sickens me that you would sit here talking **** about a mod you are supposed to be supporting when you are the last person who has the right to. Get your own crap straight before you come to us preaching about how you think this mod needs to die.

6. So what if our chances of getting players aren't big? Who ever said this was about getting players? These mods are not made for profit, they are made for fans to enjoy. It doesn't matter if you have 2 players or 20,000. As long as there is interest, it should be continued. If you don't like it, then go somewhere else and create a for-profit GTA multiplayer mod. We saw when Rockstar Games tried that, and look where it ended up. That system obviously doesn't work in this community.

7. VC:MP shouldn't be like MTA:SA just because it's successful. VC:MP should follow it's own path and make itself successful based on how it wants to be. VC:MP could easily pull off all the VC-based features that SA:MP did, and be just as successful in terms of development. Copying MTA:SA's design to do so would be copying MTA:VC's plans for Blue, and copying another mod creates confusion, not the friendly competition that instead drives fanboys to pick sides and makes the mods strong.

8. LU is not as popular yet because many people are still in the process of making very large servers that take an incredible amount of time to create from scratch. There are also updates to some basic features waiting to be released in the next few versions. You can't argue that it has anything to do with the game engine, because LU has more players than IV:MP does, and IV:MP is built for the latest GTA out there. Again, null and void argument.

9. Why are you constantly ****ting on VC and VC:MP? So what if there is a difference between single-player and multi-player? Since when has that ever mattered? Support the mod you were recruited to test or get the hell out. Fans don't want people like you taking a dump all over something the Developers worked very hard to create for everyone to enjoy.

[stormeus]

Seriously, the player count will definitely not increase much, even if you stand on your head.

We just need to make VCMP more like MTASA. I heard one time a nice quote, it gone like this: "GTA SA is a game. MTASA changed a game (SA) to a (gaming) engine". I messed it, but doesn't matter. This is what VCMP needs to do. Use VC as an engine, hack the game as much as possible. Then we can create any "game" we want, based on VC.

* stormeus groans.

[[AoD]NC]

1. If you don't know this, you're stuck. And many people are too lazy to search the answer.
3. That was for Stormeus, but while I was writing, you posted .
In fact there are some interesting mods for VC created in the last time like the "moving camera around car with mouse" mod. For 9 years no one made it. And there are still some nice mods to do in VC.

4. Not many, I may agree. But it's a representative form of the whole community. XFire incompatible with many games? This made me laugh. Maybe I don't use it, but it would be pointless to create a program that doesn't work, right?

5. And I'm not talking about myself. I look at all my friends who played VCMP with me. Many of them already retired, while the rest is... Yes, you guess it. Busy with real life problems. Only a few of them play VCMP regularly. I'm talking shit? No, that's just what will sooner or later happen, when people lose interest in it. And I just noticed that most of you think this will never happen.
I'm supporting this mod however I can with my experience I collected for many years. If you have another opinion, then have it .

6. Spending thousands of hours to work on something that is played by 2 players? Then you must been a lunatic .

7. About what path are you thinking? I think about adding as much possibilities as possible. For now we have mostly DM/fighting servers in VCMP, which not everyone likes. Role play, racing, zombie, ufo searching etc. Give the people material and they will work on it.

8. I don't follow the IV:MP, but for a long time they didn't have some basic weapon (?) sync and released a beta version. LU had everything when it was released.

9. Hmm, I understand, that I said the developers made shit? Sorry, I didn't say that and won't say. They are pro hackers of VC, which is already a big advantage for them and get respect.

@Stormeus: you like to point things recently, so I point much. The community will be stable and get a slight increase if we make some good decision.

@down: I respond tomorrow, going sleep bye bye .

[SugarD]

1. If you don't know this, you're stuck. And many people are too lazy to search the answer.
3. That was for Stormeus, but while I was writing, you posted .
In fact there are some interesting mods for VC created in the last time like the "moving camera around car with mouse" mod. For 9 years no one made it. And there are still some nice mods to do in VC.

4. Not many, I may agree. But it's a representative form of the whole community. XFire incompatible with many games? This made me laugh. Maybe I don't use it, but it would be pointless to create a program that doesn't work, right?

5. And I'm not talking about myself. I look at all my friends who played VCMP with me. Many of them already retired, while the rest is... Yes, you guess it. Busy with real life problems. Only a few of them play VCMP regularly. I'm talking shit? No, that's just what will sooner or later happen, when people lose interest in it. And I just noticed that most of you think this will never happen.
I'm supporting this mod however I can with my experience I collected for many years. If you have another opinion, then have it .

6. Spending thousands of hours to work on something that is played by 2 players? Then you must been a lunatic .

7. About what path are you thinking? I think about adding as much possibilities as possible. For now we have mostly DM/fighting servers in VCMP, which not everyone likes. Role play, racing, zombie, ufo searching etc. Give the people material and they will work on it.

8. I don't follow the IV:MP, but for a long time they didn't have some basic weapon (?) sync and released a beta version. LU had everything when it was released.

9. Hmm, I understand, that I said the developers made shit? Sorry, I didn't say that and won't say. They are pro hackers of VC, which is already a big advantage for them and get respect.

@Stormeus: you like to point things recently, so I point much. The community will be stable and get a slight increase if we make some good decision.

1. You get that no matter how successful your mod is. It's not an excuse.

2. Stormeus released a mod for VC two days ago. Your argument against him about there not being one in the last month is, again, null and void.

3. XFire uses an overlay that causes issues with many games, so yes, it is a known issue. So what if it represents many from a community? It is still not accurate data because it does not represent the entire, (nor the majority of), the community. Using it as a reference for statistical data would be using false information.

4. People grow up. So what? There are kids who play GTA:VC too. Blaming it on your age makes no sense, because people are saying that players are playing IV:MP. If them leaving VC:MP was because of their age, how would they get the time to play IV:MP? Again, that argument does not work here.

5. Loony or not, it's how the GTA modding community works. If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave.

6. I'm saying copying someone else just because they are successful won't make you successful. Yes, using them as an example is fine, but you basically said VC:MP needs to "become" what MTA:SA is. That won't get you anywhere. Feeding off someone else's success never works. Using their success as an example can, though.

7. LU did not have everything when it was released. It was in testing and development for about 4-5 years before it even came out as a first release version. IV:MP has not had a single release version yet. They are still in Beta/Release Candidate stages. That argument makes no sense because you're comparing a fully-completed mod with one that is still developing it's basic parts, and the one that is in development had people playing before it was even stable. The released one did not. There is no comparison there because they share nothing alike in the way they were made public.

8. You have said it every single time you have talked **** about VC:MP. Either quit moaning and search for solutions to the problems, or leave. Sitting around complaining about how "VC is dead" and other similar BS is not going to help VC:MP get anywhere, and it is not appreciated by any of us.

9. If that is true, then help it. Being negative only contradicts your own reply to him.

[stormeus]

@Stormeus: you like to point things recently, so I point much.

I honestly don't understand what this means, please elaborate.

[[AoD]NC]

@SugarD:
2. You forgot about two things. First, this mod is not on the largest GTA mod base and I’m basing on it. Second, this mod is nothing new and as you said “Can you come up with a decent, fun mod that you know how to make that hasn't been created already?”. There are at least a few mods to remove the loading screens, to remove the aircraft and for sure some to disable going into the pause menu after alt-tab. One of a well-known trick is to turn on the black-bars widescreen feature. So, it is nothing new. Now your point was null and void.
3. The xfire website is down now so I can’t get the statistics, but it was something like a few hundred people playing VC and few thousand SA. So it does work. Maybe there are issues with MTASA (which makes the GTA SA count lower there), but VCMP works perfectly from what I remember. And again you’re wrong. It is an accurate data. Fortunately, I’ve had some statistics lessons recently and I know that it is impossible to create perfect stats from the whole group, so you make stats basing on a smaller, representative group (e.g. you get a group of 1000 people, ask them “who do you vote for on the next election?” and get a very similar score to the official stats after the election, where millions people voted). And the XFire stats are really close. The proportion of VCMP to VC players is almost the same as the proportion of SAMP/MTASA to SA players. Anything else?
4. Please show me those kids then. Blaming on my age makes sense. One or two years ago, max was not so busy with his studies as now he is and worked on VCMP. Leave VCMP because of my age and play IVMP? Nonono, where did you get this from?
5. No, the community doesn’t work so. Some projects die, even when the mods were played by a large amount of player, look at Vice City Rage for GTA4. I guess you are referring only to MTA:III and VC?
7. Nonono. In both cases it was the developers choice to either release a stable version or betas. The IVMP team could also wait 4-5 years to release a stable version first, but they didn’t decide so, which was a right choice IMO.  Also, do you think no one will not download IVMP, because it is named “beta” or “rc”?  I think no one cares it it’s an alpha, beta, gamma, rc, nightly or stable version. If it’s playable, they download it.
8. I suggest you to relax and stop posting ****, because stairs look awful.
9. SIR, YES, SIR!

@Stormeus: one more time, now everything together. I posted in this thread various reasons, why a kid who just bought a PC, will look towards GTA 4 (or maybe even SA, after he hears that many people plays multiplayer) and won’t even take a look on VC (you may not agree, but these are the facts). Of course, there are always a few exceptions… Right? So, if they won’t play VC, they won’t be a part of the VCMP community (obvious). VCMP’s mission should be therefore to make the current community, emm “stable”, because the possibility of reaching a player base at least 1k is impossible now. The highest regular player count now is 130. With an amazing 0.4, we could reach 150-200 (almost double the number, depends on how many players will come back after they hear the magic keyword), but it’s still nothing comparing to SA multiplayers.

[stormeus]

@Stormeus: you like to point things recently, so I point much.

I honestly don't understand what this means, please elaborate.

[SugarD]

@SugarD:
2. You forgot about two things. First, this mod is not on the largest GTA mod base and I’m basing on it. Second, this mod is nothing new and as you said “Can you come up with a decent, fun mod that you know how to make that hasn't been created already?”. There are at least a few mods to remove the loading screens, to remove the aircraft and for sure some to disable going into the pause menu after alt-tab. One of a well-known trick is to turn on the black-bars widescreen feature. So, it is nothing new. Now your point was null and void.
3. The xfire website is down now so I can’t get the statistics, but it was something like a few hundred people playing VC and few thousand SA. So it does work. Maybe there are issues with MTASA (which makes the GTA SA count lower there), but VCMP works perfectly from what I remember. And again you’re wrong. It is an accurate data. Fortunately, I’ve had some statistics lessons recently and I know that it is impossible to create perfect stats from the whole group, so you make stats basing on a smaller, representative group (e.g. you get a group of 1000 people, ask them “who do you vote for on the next election?” and get a very similar score to the official stats after the election, where millions people voted). And the XFire stats are really close. The proportion of VCMP to VC players is almost the same as the proportion of SAMP/MTASA to SA players. Anything else?
4. Please show me those kids then. Blaming on my age makes sense. One or two years ago, max was not so busy with his studies as now he is and worked on VCMP. Leave VCMP because of my age and play IVMP? Nonono, where did you get this from?
5. No, the community doesn’t work so. Some projects die, even when the mods were played by a large amount of player, look at Vice City Rage for GTA4. I guess you are referring only to MTA:III and VC?
7. Nonono. In both cases it was the developers choice to either release a stable version or betas. The IVMP team could also wait 4-5 years to release a stable version first, but they didn’t decide so, which was a right choice IMO.  Also, do you think no one will not download IVMP, because it is named “beta” or “rc”?  I think no one cares it it’s an alpha, beta, gamma, rc, nightly or stable version. If it’s playable, they download it.
8. I suggest you to relax and stop posting ****, because stairs look awful.
9. SIR, YES, SIR!

@Stormeus: one more time, now everything together. I posted in this thread various reasons, why a kid who just bought a PC, will look towards GTA 4 (or maybe even SA, after he hears that many people plays multiplayer) and won’t even take a look on VC (you may not agree, but these are the facts). Of course, there are always a few exceptions… Right? So, if they won’t play VC, they won’t be a part of the VCMP community (obvious). VCMP’s mission should be therefore to make the current community, emm “stable”, because the possibility of reaching a player base at least 1k is impossible now. The highest regular player count now is 130. With an amazing 0.4, we could reach 150-200 (almost double the number, depends on how many players will come back after they hear the magic keyword), but it’s still nothing comparing to SA multiplayers.

1. It used to be. Like I said, people didn't understand the true potential of modding GTA until the end of it's era and the beginning of SA's. That wasn't due to the games. That was due to when people figured out that they could be torn apart.
2. You just contradicted yourself for starters. Secondly, All of those already exist. I asked for ones that didn't. Please give me a decent answer.
3. I already told you, that is not a fair or equal comparison. It doesn't matter what one small source says and what you think it means. It is not true statistical data. You're also contradicting your own argument by saying the later GTA will do better, because IV:MP has less players than VC:MP right now, and it's for the newest GTA out there.
4. You brought up that argument yourself. You want an example of kids? Check out Argonath RPG. I know people ranging from 12 to 40 that still play VC MP clients.
5. And how many of them have been revived repetitively by both fans and the creators? Quite a few. Take SOL for example. VC-O helped them make a comeback, and after the split apart and VC-O shut down, SOL still continued on.
6. Of course it was the Developer's choice. You said that the player base was based on completion of the mods. That has nothing to do with what you said.
7. People who **** on mods they are supposed to support look even worse.
8. No comment.
9. Define stable. Last I checked, MTA:VC servers maxing out at 26 players back in 2005 with 50 or so online, even after ASE's death, was considered stable. Stable is nothing more than what you define it as. Unless there is exactly 0 or 1 players playing a multiplayer mod, then it is stable. All it takes is 2 people to interact. Anything beyond that is a surplus in stats.

[[AoD]NC]

1. Really? Well I didn't mod before the SA era, because I didn't have any proper tools. But... Editing some files with notepad is easy, because all of them have some instructions. Map editing was also possible since the beginning (MooMapper). And the scm language was hacked a few day after the release of III? If this is not the true potential of modding, where it is?

2. Wait, wait. First you ask about a mod that doesn't exist, then you come with Stormeus'es mod and now you're talking again about a mod that doesn't exist? I'll repeat myself. There will always be something new to do. As I said, mods "moving camera around car with mouse" were created last year which was a big surprise. And we will still get some surprises.

3. Don't believe in stats - your choice. They are equal and I stop at this point.

4. 40s - okay, I know some older VCMP players too. But how many have 12 years or a few more? I'm sure you can count them on all your fingers.

5. SOL is a difficult project, they have ups and downs. VCO helped with a comeback? Don't think so. Anyway, according to their board at gtaf, there is more silence recently.

6. 7. 8. I'm bored already. Instead of a nice talk, we are going into an argument.

9. Stable = don't let it decrease.

[SugarD]

1. Really? Well I didn't mod before the SA era, because I didn't have any proper tools. But... Editing some files with notepad is easy, because all of them have some instructions. Map editing was also possible since the beginning (MooMapper). And the scm language was hacked a few day after the release of III? If this is not the true potential of modding, where it is?

2. Wait, wait. First you ask about a mod that doesn't exist, then you come with Stormeus'es mod and now you're talking again about a mod that doesn't exist? I'll repeat myself. There will always be something new to do. As I said, mods "moving camera around car with mouse" were created last year which was a big surprise. And we will still get some surprises.

3. Don't believe in stats - your choice. They are equal and I stop at this point.

4. 40s - okay, I know some older VCMP players too. But how many have 12 years or a few more? I'm sure you can count them on all your fingers.

5. SOL is a difficult project, they have ups and downs. VCO helped with a comeback? Don't think so. Anyway, according to their board at gtaf, there is more silence recently.

6. 7. 8. I'm bored already. Instead of a nice talk, we are going into an argument.

9. Stable = don't let it decrease.

1. Memory hooking, documented memory addresses, streaming distance changes, world size changes, limit changes, and overall binding to and modifying existing game data that is otherwise normally hardcoded.
2. No, you said no mods like that existed. I said tell me one that hasn't been made. I also used Storm's as an example of how you are wrong about saying no one has released a mod for VC in the last month.
3. They are not equal due to not every single player, or the majority, using X-Fire, and thus it is a fact that they are not reliable, regardless of your opinion.
4. Quite a few. I can think of at least 20 that play III and VC MP mods all the time, with more constantly showing up.
5. Until you talk to X-Seti, don't tell me I'm wrong. I've supported his mod since the beginning, and I know him on a personal level. How else do you think SOL-O became a project? Hell, VC-O and SOL announced it publicly themselves that it was a joint effort to save both mods.
6. No comment.
7. No comment.
8. No comment.
9. So then you're saying MTA:SA and SA:MP are unstable because their player counts have gone up and down over the years. Alright, then no GTA MP mod will ever be stable.

[Jellyfish]

No?

If most of the people complaining actually bother to play once in a while they'll realize it isn't dead. And there's always people willing to keep it 'alive'.

[Doom]

Exactly! That's what some noobs are not understanding that VC:MP is alive! And Some people just don't wanna leave it... so if someday we get Maxorator back or Any other really well advanced Coder who really can help this project till then... otherwise it is end of the discussion here already.

[SugarD]

Exactly! That's what some noobs are not understanding that VC:MP is alive! And Some people just don't wanna leave it... so if someday we get Maxorator back or Any other really well advanced Coder who really can help this project till then... otherwise it is end of the discussion here already.

Maxorator isn't gone, just away. Bakasan has also recently returned. They are just trying to figure out what the next steps are right now. We just have to be patient until they decide their next move.